År 2007 mailade Stephen Sakellarios direkt till Bruce Kelly, för att få hans egna ord om upplevelsen av ubåtsmannen James' liv och död. Har nedan redovisar han dem. Läs och begrunda!

Celebes Island / Sulawesi Celebes Island / Sulawesi

The following are questions put to Bruce Kelly, subject of the book
"James the Submarine Man" by Rick Brown, via e-mail, in January of 2007.


These were Bruce's preliminary answers to the questions; I sent some followup questions, and he was to complete the answers to them, print it out, sign and have it notarized, and mail it to me.

Bruce Kelly verified his identity by sending a Xerox of his driver's license; however, he sent his initial round of responses by e-mail only, and did not answer the second e-mail with followup questions. Some of his answers are ambiguous and thus frustrating from the standpoint of trying to establish proof, but several of them nonetheless shed light on issues that the book raises, or clarify certain points of evidence (as, for example, the drawing of Celebes Island).

Note that after this first round of questions I requested a copy of the drawing of Celebes Island, which apparently Rick Brown's son, Ray Brown, may have. (I also requested it later on from Ray Brown when he contacted me, asking that I take down my download link to the Word document I created of the book.)

From the clarifications below, we know that Bruce's drawing of the island was probably not from prior exposure, and that it was done during or immediately after the hypnotic session, but we do not know for sure how accurate it was, and must rely solely on Rick Brown's description.

Celebes Island, officially known after 1949 as "Sulawesi", looks kind of like a hand--if the drawing looked even remotely like a hand, it would still constitute strong evidence, because it is highly unlikely that anyone imagining an island would think to draw it that way. In the list below, my questions are in italics, and are posted here exactly as I sent them and in the order I put them. --Stephen Sakellarios, webmaster.

I understand that it was in the second hypnotic session with Rick Brown that the Johnston life was discovered, and that soon after this session, you looked up information on the submarine in the library, finding the name, number, and crew roster including the commander. From the book, I see that in this second session, before you could have known this information by normal means, you got the name "James Johnston," the name and number of the submarine, "Shark SS-174", and the name of a crew-member in the compartment with you. That name isn't given in the description of that second session; however, the name "Robert Miller" is given in the description of a session that occurred about a month later (after you had already seen the roster in the library). Did you get the full name "Robert Miller" in that second session, before you had been to the library and had seen the roster?

As I recall, all names of ships, places and people were given during the first couple of sessions. Rick was concerned that natural curiosity might lead me to attempt to find information and asked that I not. In all honesty I wasn't that interested in the beginning and had no desire to locate information confirming or not confirming what I had seen and felt under hypnosis.
Are there any other details that you got during that second session, including any not recorded in the book?
There could be other details that came out during all the sessions that Rick did not put in the book. Rick did audio tape all of the sessions. I would suspect that his son, Ray, might have those tapes.
I am especially interested in your having come up with the names "Tule Lake" and "Klamath Falls" under hypnosis. To your knowledge, had you ever seen any reference to these two places before the session in which they came up?
I probably had knowledge of Klamath Falls. I don't recall mentioning Klamath Falls. I do remember Tule Lake.
Another important element to this case is your knowing, under hypnosis, the exact location of the submarine when it was depth-charged. Before the session in which you named nearby Celebes Island, can you recall ever having seen a reference to Celebes Island, or had you ever seen a map or a picture of it? The book mentions that you drew a picture of Celebes Island "after the session". Was it immediately after, as soon as you came out of hypnosis, as part of that session with Rick Brown? If not, did you see a picture of Celebes Island before you drew the picture?
I don't believe I had ever heard of, or seen a map of Celebes Islands. I remember thinking it was the wrong name under hypnosis only because the name sounded strange to me. I don't think I ever voiced that to Rick. My memory is that I drew the picture either during or right after a session. I did not see a picture of it before I drew the picture.
Were any historical details about James' girlfriend Molly and her father ever verified? If so, please share whatever you feel comfortable sharing, and please indicate if you had any normal way of knowing that information before you described it under hypnosis.
I do believe Rick did verify information on both Molly and her father. Due to a close personal relationship that developed out of this episode I asked that Rick please leave much of that information out of the book. It didn't really play a part in the telling of the story.
Prior to visiting the museum submarine Pampanito in San Francisco, did you have any knowledge of the layout or workings of WWII submarines?
I believe by the time we visited the Pampanito I did have some knowledge based on the sessions and any material Rick might have received on the Shark. I do remember when first seeing the Pampanito feeling very sick. Rick seeing this, used hypnosis to relieve the anxiety I was feeling.
There is a question in my mind as I read the book, of how much research results Rick shared with you during the period that the sessions were being conducted. On page 95, Rick says "Since I wasn't trying to use my findings to prove anything, I was open and honest with Bruce about all of the data I had gathered". However, in several places Rick indicates that he withheld research information to give you a chance to come up with it on your own, as with details about the inner workings of submarines. Please clarify, as specifically as possible, what research Rick shared with you, at what points in the process.
During the times of the initial sessions, when most of the information came out, there was little information for Rick to share with me. It sometimes took months for Rick to get information from the Navy Department. What information Rick might have shared early on I would guess was more from knowledge he might have had. As I recall Rick was in the Air Force, so he would have had knowledge regarding protocols, ranks, etc. The entire information from the initial sessions would have come from my memories under hypnosis:
Please list, if you can, the specific items of information that you got under hyponosis, which you had no normal way of knowing at that point (normal ways of knowing would include Rick having shared the research results).
Dates, personal names, ship names, places, James' life growing up, etc. Bruce misunderstood my question to mean the types of information, whereas I was hoping to get actual items--SS
The book mentions the phobias and physical symptoms you reported in therapy, which were significantly improved or cleared up during the second session. It also mentions that you had had a fear of flying "as long as you could remember." Please describe any phobias, physical symptoms, tendencies, or knowledge you had as a child that might have come from the life of James Johnston.
I always had a fear of water. Refusing to take swimming lessons because I was terrified of the water. I can also remember being uncomfortable in confined places (elevators, crowds, etc.). I never had a time during my childhood when I was asked to fly. Note that I have written elsewhere on this website my opinion that the phrase "I have always" is often indicative of past-life influence--SS
Rick Brown mentions, in the book on page 60, that you had a deja vu experience as a child on Long Beach Boulevard in Long Beach, California. Please describe this incident in some detail, and also describe any other deja vu experiences you remember having as a child. If any of these were historically verfied, please include that information.
The experience in Long Beach was when I was very young (6-8 years old). I was in the car with my parents and I remember telling them I had been there before. Of course they responded, no dear you are mistaken. But to this day I remember feeling I knew this area. I, like many people, have had many times of feeling I've been here before or I've done this before. Through these sessions Rick and I discovered I am very sensitive to people, feelings, etc. More common for me is the feeling that some cosmic tumbler just fell into place and I have already seen this moment. This kind of fits into part of my believe system that we write the outline before entering this existence but still have the freedom to fill in the chapters.
Did you have any personal contact with James' family, and if so, did any confirmations or verifications come out of those encounters that you feel comfortable sharing?
My contact with the family and childhood friends of James came during the filming of Unsolved Mysteries. I think they got more out of it than I did because by then the sessions were long over and I had moved on. Unsolved Mysteries felt it better to recreate the scenes of me under hypnosis, etc. by using both Rick and me instead of actors. It was an interesting process to watch. They were in essence making a mini-movie. I think during the visit to Alabama because it was a TV Production I was more aware of hitting my marks than having feelings regarding the childhood hometown of James. The house he grew up in with his mother did bring back many feelings. Most of them sad.
Please describe your impression of Rick Brown's personal and professional integrity (since this is usually a prime skeptical argument--when they can't debunk a case by any other means, they charge fraud).
Rick always demonstrated professional integrity with me. I observed him many times with groups and he always demonstrated a high level of professionalism. Personally, Rick was different. He was a large man, with a devilish twinkle in his eyes and a large appetite for the pleasures of this world (wine, women and food). I believe Rick believed these as the food of the gods. Some could question his lifestyle but Rick was neither a fraud professionally or personally. A quality I really liked about him.
How has this experience affected your life and your outlook on life?
Well I still don't know how to swim but at 54 I don't see the need. I am a Corporate Director and have flown hundreds of times over the last couple of years. I'm usually asleep by take-off. I hate the airport experience but flying does not bother me at all. Given a choice between an hour flight and a four-hour drive I always take the flight. I wish I could tell you this whole experience has made life and the spiritual journey easier but nothing is further from the truth. I should enjoy life more and have more fun. But I still easily get caught up in the moment-to-moment dramas of life and take it way more seriously than I should. Trying to make it all fit spiritually is difficult as well. I believe in a Divine Presence. Whether that's an almighty God or a God-like power that exists in all of us I don't know. I like to think the spirit lives on and I will see all my loved ones again and maybe we will keep doing this until we get it right.
Please add any further comments that you feel should be known by posterity regarding this case.